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	<title>Comments on: Dedicato a te</title>
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		<title>By: Eileen</title>
		<link>http://blog.catholicireland.net/2007/07/30/dedicato-a-te/comment-page-1/#comment-5886</link>
		<dc:creator>Eileen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 06:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.catholicireland.net/2007/07/30/dedicato-a-te/#comment-5886</guid>
		<description>Dear Gerard, I found this website tonight  as I sought solace from the &quot;progress&quot; wraught upon the country my Irish ancestors came to two generations ago. I wonder just how fast they would have returned to Ireland had they seen the America of today. Now, I too, am unfamiliar with Latin although it HAS become more popular among young people here. One of the reasons I think for a return to Latin is a longing for unity in our Catholic faith. I read some comments from the Irish about the &quot;progress&quot; they want. I think of the 40 years of &quot;progress&quot; on this country and pray Ireland decides to be very careful in its zeal to keep up with Europe and the U.S. Learn from the horrible social mistakes in this country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Gerard, I found this website tonight  as I sought solace from the &#8220;progress&#8221; wraught upon the country my Irish ancestors came to two generations ago. I wonder just how fast they would have returned to Ireland had they seen the America of today. Now, I too, am unfamiliar with Latin although it HAS become more popular among young people here. One of the reasons I think for a return to Latin is a longing for unity in our Catholic faith. I read some comments from the Irish about the &#8220;progress&#8221; they want. I think of the 40 years of &#8220;progress&#8221; on this country and pray Ireland decides to be very careful in its zeal to keep up with Europe and the U.S. Learn from the horrible social mistakes in this country.</p>
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		<title>By: L. Maher</title>
		<link>http://blog.catholicireland.net/2007/07/30/dedicato-a-te/comment-page-1/#comment-3292</link>
		<dc:creator>L. Maher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.catholicireland.net/2007/07/30/dedicato-a-te/#comment-3292</guid>
		<description>Gerard wrote &quot;Why do people want to go to one specific time in church (sic) history&quot;

The extraordinary form of the Mass is contemporary and is celebrated more frequently than some of the Eastern rite liturgies. There are monasteries and parishes all over the world committed to the extraordinary form. The liturgy of 1950 is just as relevant as the liturgy of 1970.  Perhaps more so because (IMO) nothing appears so dated today as anything - clothes, architecture, or music from the 1970&#039;s.

&quot;I can say that none of these young people see the Latin Mass as something they are seeking in order to deepen their faith or strengthen their connection with the church (sic)

I wonder how this observation was determined?  Do the young people of your parish have extensive experience with the extraordinary form by which to compare it to the ordinary form?  Perhaps your young people are familiar with the ordinary form in Latin with a sung gradual instead of the Responsorial Psalm (did you know that the sung gradual remains in the ordinary form)?  It seems to me that in truth all that has happened is the young people have little to no experience with the EF and don&#039;t know how it could build and sustain a strong faith and Catholic identity.
Looking at the stats on Catholic practice since the introduction of the ordinary form it seems pastoral &amp; prudent to re-introduce the extraordinary form in places where it was sidelined.  Let the two forms compete side by side and then we will know what the people prefer.

&quot;Going backwards is rarely a good way to go forwards.  And there is no doubt that the church needs to progress.&quot;

Funny thing - you&#039;ve just regulated the liturgies of the other Catholic ritual Churches in communion with Rome - Byzantine, Chaldean and Coptic to being &quot;backwards&quot; and lacking &quot;progress&quot; because they&#039;ve not modified their liturgies in any significant way since the council though they too are post Vatican II Catholic Churches.

Don&#039;t confuse &quot;change&quot; with &quot;progress&quot;.  Change can be regressive. Nevertheless, to bring the Mass of Vatican II, the Mass celebrated by the Council Fathers, to the people in no way retards the Church - it permits healthy diversity and is pastoral.
The ordinary form of the liturgy is beset by translation problems and liturgical abuses that bring the people a great deal of pain.  Don&#039;t fear diversity.  The Byzantine rite has two forms (Liturgy of St. John C. and St. Basil) - now we have two forms as well.

&quot;The church of the Latin Mass was one that stood apart from the community, a church that was very much of the “us” and “them” variety, a church that sided all too often with those who had power and wealth.&quot;

Your division of the Church into a &quot;Latin Mass&quot; Church and a (non Latin Mass) Church displays a hermeneutic of rupture that has no basis in our ecclesiology.  (1) the post V2 liturgy is celebrated in Latin too, (2) we remain part of the Latin rite, (3) there was no vernacular Mass at Vatican II, (4) the Church has not changed her teaching about possessing the fullness of the truth, (5) St Francis of Assisi, the Missionaries of Charity, the Little Sisters of the Poor, the St. Vincent Society, and the Catholic Workers of D. Day fame were all founded when the liturgy was only in Latin.  Therefore, the social apostolate of the Church does not seem to require the ordinary form of the Mass.

Additionally, don&#039;t presume that Vatican II demands a rupture in liturgy.  The other ritual Churches within Catholicism give evidence of that.

&quot;Latin is an unnecessary distraction.&quot;

A strange charge coming from a member of the Latin Church.  Did it &quot;distract&quot; St. Francis?  Did it &quot;distract&quot; the Fathers at V2? Quite the opposite of your view - Vatican 2 directed that Latin and Gregorian chant remain in the liturgy - do you realize this?  To be honest to our brothers in the faith we cannot ignore the fact that the call of the council was to retain Latin not to drop it.  The wisdom in the Council&#039;s call to retain Latin is evidenced by the translation problems that consumes the English speaking Church today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerard wrote &#8220;Why do people want to go to one specific time in church (sic) history&#8221;</p>
<p>The extraordinary form of the Mass is contemporary and is celebrated more frequently than some of the Eastern rite liturgies. There are monasteries and parishes all over the world committed to the extraordinary form. The liturgy of 1950 is just as relevant as the liturgy of 1970.  Perhaps more so because (IMO) nothing appears so dated today as anything &#8211; clothes, architecture, or music from the 1970&#8217;s.</p>
<p>&#8220;I can say that none of these young people see the Latin Mass as something they are seeking in order to deepen their faith or strengthen their connection with the church (sic)</p>
<p>I wonder how this observation was determined?  Do the young people of your parish have extensive experience with the extraordinary form by which to compare it to the ordinary form?  Perhaps your young people are familiar with the ordinary form in Latin with a sung gradual instead of the Responsorial Psalm (did you know that the sung gradual remains in the ordinary form)?  It seems to me that in truth all that has happened is the young people have little to no experience with the EF and don&#8217;t know how it could build and sustain a strong faith and Catholic identity.<br />
Looking at the stats on Catholic practice since the introduction of the ordinary form it seems pastoral &amp; prudent to re-introduce the extraordinary form in places where it was sidelined.  Let the two forms compete side by side and then we will know what the people prefer.</p>
<p>&#8220;Going backwards is rarely a good way to go forwards.  And there is no doubt that the church needs to progress.&#8221;</p>
<p>Funny thing &#8211; you&#8217;ve just regulated the liturgies of the other Catholic ritual Churches in communion with Rome &#8211; Byzantine, Chaldean and Coptic to being &#8220;backwards&#8221; and lacking &#8220;progress&#8221; because they&#8217;ve not modified their liturgies in any significant way since the council though they too are post Vatican II Catholic Churches.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t confuse &#8220;change&#8221; with &#8220;progress&#8221;.  Change can be regressive. Nevertheless, to bring the Mass of Vatican II, the Mass celebrated by the Council Fathers, to the people in no way retards the Church &#8211; it permits healthy diversity and is pastoral.<br />
The ordinary form of the liturgy is beset by translation problems and liturgical abuses that bring the people a great deal of pain.  Don&#8217;t fear diversity.  The Byzantine rite has two forms (Liturgy of St. John C. and St. Basil) &#8211; now we have two forms as well.</p>
<p>&#8220;The church of the Latin Mass was one that stood apart from the community, a church that was very much of the “us” and “them” variety, a church that sided all too often with those who had power and wealth.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your division of the Church into a &#8220;Latin Mass&#8221; Church and a (non Latin Mass) Church displays a hermeneutic of rupture that has no basis in our ecclesiology.  (1) the post V2 liturgy is celebrated in Latin too, (2) we remain part of the Latin rite, (3) there was no vernacular Mass at Vatican II, (4) the Church has not changed her teaching about possessing the fullness of the truth, (5) St Francis of Assisi, the Missionaries of Charity, the Little Sisters of the Poor, the St. Vincent Society, and the Catholic Workers of D. Day fame were all founded when the liturgy was only in Latin.  Therefore, the social apostolate of the Church does not seem to require the ordinary form of the Mass.</p>
<p>Additionally, don&#8217;t presume that Vatican II demands a rupture in liturgy.  The other ritual Churches within Catholicism give evidence of that.</p>
<p>&#8220;Latin is an unnecessary distraction.&#8221;</p>
<p>A strange charge coming from a member of the Latin Church.  Did it &#8220;distract&#8221; St. Francis?  Did it &#8220;distract&#8221; the Fathers at V2? Quite the opposite of your view &#8211; Vatican 2 directed that Latin and Gregorian chant remain in the liturgy &#8211; do you realize this?  To be honest to our brothers in the faith we cannot ignore the fact that the call of the council was to retain Latin not to drop it.  The wisdom in the Council&#8217;s call to retain Latin is evidenced by the translation problems that consumes the English speaking Church today.</p>
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		<title>By: Gervase</title>
		<link>http://blog.catholicireland.net/2007/07/30/dedicato-a-te/comment-page-1/#comment-2840</link>
		<dc:creator>Gervase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.catholicireland.net/2007/07/30/dedicato-a-te/#comment-2840</guid>
		<description>To respond to the question about &quot;where&quot; the young people are who are attracted to the Latin Mass-you can find those young people by attending almost any published Latin Mass-At St. Agnes in Manhattan less than 30% of the attendants at the Sunday Latin Mass are old enough to have ever attended the Mass before the Novus Ordo.  If the young people you know have no desire for the Latin Mass it could be simply their &quot;preference&quot; but it may also be because they have not been exposed to it.
As far as your not understanding your Latin responses as an altar server, that has much more to do with your failure to study the missal than the use of the vernacular.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To respond to the question about &#8220;where&#8221; the young people are who are attracted to the Latin Mass-you can find those young people by attending almost any published Latin Mass-At St. Agnes in Manhattan less than 30% of the attendants at the Sunday Latin Mass are old enough to have ever attended the Mass before the Novus Ordo.  If the young people you know have no desire for the Latin Mass it could be simply their &#8220;preference&#8221; but it may also be because they have not been exposed to it.<br />
As far as your not understanding your Latin responses as an altar server, that has much more to do with your failure to study the missal than the use of the vernacular.</p>
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		<title>By: Micahel</title>
		<link>http://blog.catholicireland.net/2007/07/30/dedicato-a-te/comment-page-1/#comment-1439</link>
		<dc:creator>Micahel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.catholicireland.net/2007/07/30/dedicato-a-te/#comment-1439</guid>
		<description>I believe that of the great blunders of the Second Vatican Council was the downgrading of the Latin Mass, the re-ordering of altars and so on whilst failing to address issues which are still outstanding. One only has to look at the Eastern Orthodox churches particularly in some of the ex-Communist states where the Divine Service is sung for over three hours in Glagolithic and is attended by large congregations with great reverence including Mr. Putin! Pope Bendedict has expressed concern at the quality of the Liturgy and of Liturgical Music. Fortunately there are still some churches where Benediction and Mass are celebrated albeit in a mixture of Latin and English.
Rather than going backwards, the increased use of Latin and the literal translation of the Latin Rite will amount to the restoration of the 
dignity and solelmity which is so often lacking in clap-happy folkish services today. The  &quot;unnecessary distraction&quot; stems from the continual failure to address reforms which would make the Church &quot;relevant in the world&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that of the great blunders of the Second Vatican Council was the downgrading of the Latin Mass, the re-ordering of altars and so on whilst failing to address issues which are still outstanding. One only has to look at the Eastern Orthodox churches particularly in some of the ex-Communist states where the Divine Service is sung for over three hours in Glagolithic and is attended by large congregations with great reverence including Mr. Putin! Pope Bendedict has expressed concern at the quality of the Liturgy and of Liturgical Music. Fortunately there are still some churches where Benediction and Mass are celebrated albeit in a mixture of Latin and English.<br />
Rather than going backwards, the increased use of Latin and the literal translation of the Latin Rite will amount to the restoration of the<br />
dignity and solelmity which is so often lacking in clap-happy folkish services today. The  &#8220;unnecessary distraction&#8221; stems from the continual failure to address reforms which would make the Church &#8220;relevant in the world&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ciarán</title>
		<link>http://blog.catholicireland.net/2007/07/30/dedicato-a-te/comment-page-1/#comment-1342</link>
		<dc:creator>Ciarán</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:11:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.catholicireland.net/2007/07/30/dedicato-a-te/#comment-1342</guid>
		<description>It is a &#039;us&#039; and &#039;them&#039;. We are the one true Church they are not. I also suggest you go the the Latin Mass on a Sunday and you will find more you people there than any othe church around the island: fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a &#8216;us&#8217; and &#8216;them&#8217;. We are the one true Church they are not. I also suggest you go the the Latin Mass on a Sunday and you will find more you people there than any othe church around the island: fact.</p>
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