“Ireland looks set to repeat the mistakes of societies like Britain and the US ” – Cardinal Sean Brady
Several recent news reports here in Ireland have been focusing on Cardinal Sean Brady’s ultimatum to Irish government. The planned Civil Partnership Bill proposes to make changes in order to offer better (mainly financial) protection to same-sex and cohabiting couples.
The Cardinal criticised the Bill, arguing that it undermined Marriage as upheld in the Constitution, by offering it to same-sex couples in all but name. Cardinal Brady has faced a torrent of feedback to his ultimatum from various sources, his actions being viewed by most media-commentators as non-progressive.
With Obama’s US victory, it would seem that Catholics could be forced into embracing an era of secular theism. Is this possible for a Catholic? Will resistance to changes such as the Civil Partnership Bill further the divide that seems to be growing between the Church and the youth?
Tuesday, November 11th, 2008 and is filed under Uncategorized.
Responses are currently closed
matthew Says:
The church has survived far worse than a few media commentators. It has led the way in science, human rights and many other issues besides and will continue to lead the way. the “light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.”
-John 1:5
So keep fighting the good fight dave! I’m with you!
November 12th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Fiachra Says:
How has the Church led the way in science?? Theoretically in human rights yes, but in practice one must make up one’s own mind.
Dave you claim that Catholics would be forced into “embracing an era of secular theism”, can i remind you of the definition of secular theism actually is?! “Secular Humanism is a humanist philosophy that upholds reason, ethics and justice”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
So, remind me where the downside of secular theism is again??
Instead you wish to keep discriminating a social minority? Do you also believe then that disabled people or those with special needs or even ethnic minorities (or any other group of people who are born different from the social norm with no choice in the matter i.e. did not make a conscience decision to become who they are) should not be allowed to marry or engage in a civil partnership?!
Yet Matthew claims that the church have done, and will continue to lead the way in human rights?
I think denying people basic rights and social privileges simply because of a natural difference is a far cry from leading the way in human rights!
November 14th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
LMaher Says:
Fiachra,
You didn’t ask me but I thought I’d respond.
You asked:
1. “How has the Church led the way in science?”
It is difficult to believe anyone would ask this question. Many great scientists, like Louis Pasteur, have been Catholic. A large number of Catholic churchmen, priests in particular, have produced extensive scientific works. At the forefront were the Jesuits, who led the way in many fields and so dominated the field of seismology that it became known as ‘the Jesuit science. One Jesuit-scientist is Father Roger Boscovich (1711-1787) who won praise throughout Europe for his advances in astronomy, natural science and the beginnings of atomic theory.
Even deeper is the fact that Catholic teaching that faith and reason are compatible is the reason that natural philosophy, i.e. “science” developed in Europe in the first place.
2. You asked “Where (is) the downside of secular theism?
The downside of secular theism can be found in its lack of respect for revealed truth. No moral right or wrong can be binding because there is no revealed truth. There is no objective natural law. Secular regimes in history would include Nazi Germany and Stalin’s USSR.
3. “Denying people basic rights and social privileges simply because of a natural difference is a far cry from leading the way in human rights”
You’ve not established that the Church nor Ireland are denying any basic rights or social privilege to anyone. You show a surprising lack of concern that Catholic institutions are being forced to close as governments move to restrict our religious freedom and freedom of conscience. Catholic pharmacists are often, contrary to their consciences, compelled to fill prescriptions for abortifacient drugs. Medical school students are sometimes forced to accept training in abortion techniques. Libera nos a malo.
November 15th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Gary Connolly Says:
Matthew and LMaher,
Mat,
“It [the church] has led the way in science, human rights and many other issues besides and will continue to lead the way.”
This is soooo wrong I had to read it a couple of times to actually be sure that is what you were saying.
Lmaher,
You seem to think that matthew is not only right but that the point is so obvious as to be beyond doubt or question. Sometimes people (usually theists) can be so dumb it is actually shocking. Your claim that the church has lead the way in science is based on three points.
1. Some famous scientists were Catholic. Are you mentally deficient or just overlooking the fact that almost everyone was catholic in certain times and places. It was dangerous and often fatal to go against church dogma. Ask Galileo or Bruno about the scientific attitude of the church. NOTHING could be more unscientific than the blind acceptance of dogma.
2. Some clergy contributed to scientific endeavour. The clergy and the rich were the only people of those eras with the time or resources to conduct scientific enquiry. And again, this was an age when everyone was religious to some degree. Muslims invented Algebra. By this kind of non-thinking, Islam has led the way in science.
3. The catholic faith taught that reason and faith could co-exist? I don’t know what history you are reading but it is not the history of earth. Natural philosophy way predates Catholicism and even if it didn’t natural philosophy and science are not the same thing.
Sometimes the dumb is so strong it actually hurts. In an age where being religious is no longer necessary for survival or social acceptance, it is amazing how many scientist are not religious at all. Religion by its nature is the antithesis of science.
On “revealed truth”. Subscribing to something so ludicrous is one very good reason why you should never comment on science.
Secular regimes? Nazi Germany? I guess you must have missed all those speeches Hitler made invoking god? The Pope at the time never made any move to condemn Hitler or the Nazis; he even sent Hitler a congratulatory letter on surviving an assassination attempt. There was some fine moral leadership. Catholics are dumb enough to think the pope has a direct line to God, right? You lot still believe that nonsense right. I guess God was pretty pleased about Hitler’s survival too then, eh?
3.Leading the way in human rights. This would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. Oh no. Catholic pharmacists are being forced to do their jobs and are not being allowed to force their bronze age superstitions on everyone else. What terrible oppression. They are not being allowed to IMPOSE their views on the rest of society. If their conviction is so strong they can choose to do a different job. The Church isn’t really denying rights to people anymore because thankfully it has no power any more. When it did have power, it sure did deny people all kinds of things. Even today I legal system show the remnants of catholic influence. Prostitution for example is illegal for expressly religious reasons. There is no logical prohibition against it. American abstinence only programs borne of the ridiculous Christian angst about contraception is costing lives in Africa. Not 100 years ago but now today. Catholic preaching on the topic is killing people.
I know this probably seemed a little harsh but I just can’t help getting irritated by such egregious stupidity. Catholicism is possibly the most odious and wilfully ignorant branch of that reason-hating gullibility cult known as Christianity. Adhere to its teachings if you must but please don’t embarrass yourself and insult thinking people by suggesting it has been to the betterment of science of all things.
Libera nos a religio.
November 26th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Maria Says:
Kudos to Cardinal Brady.
Why is Ireland set to make the same mistakes as the UK and America?
In science class at school one was always taught to look at the findings of a given experiment and if the results were not what one anticipated or desired, one would CHANGE the method.
I think its time to start thinking the UNTHINKABLE.
Perhaps the results seen in the UK and America are ‘DESIRABLE’ and since the experiment is showing ‘Good’ results extend the project to as many countries as possible.
The corruption of the masses was a tactic used by communists and revolutioneries both in France and Russia in the early stages of revolution. In fact people became soooo bad that even the communists tried to bring in some levels of decency.
Just turn on RTE and listen to the ads ‘Want some condoms with those chips?’
Pray for Ireland
November 28th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
LMaher Says:
Gary,
You underestimate the reason why the scientific revolution took place where it did and when it did.
You don’t seem to appreciate the important role that scholasticism had in bringing faith and reason together in Christian philosophy. You oversimplify the Galileo case & ignore the contribution of the many post reformation/post enlightenment Catholic scientists. You show no evidence of seriously engaging the significance of the natural law in balancing the extremes of legal positivism. The rest reads like standard but rather rote anti-clericalism.
It is telling that you are seemingly unable (or unwilling) to recognize the plight of the Catholic pharmacist you seem to consider ineligible for his job due to his religion. Extreme progressives will broach no dissent and typically frame their arguments in emotivism rather than reasoned debate. In contrast, this usually serves to underscore the reasonableness of the Church’s position and the confidence Christians have in the truth.
December 4th, 2008 at 2:01 am